what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly.

i learned thoughts on capitol hill and this close captioning brought to you by feel away, optimum, enhanced calming for cats have your cats springs outside the litter box, fights with other cats were scratches the furniture, they could be telling you there's stressed to help them feel more calm, try feel away. optimum good evening. >> welcome to our continuing special coverage. the trump, new york hush money trial de tens. prosecutors, but for more alleged gag order violations before the judge. and the defense paint paint expected witnesses, michael cohen, and currently witness keith davidson is the true culprits in this case, not trump davidson, as you know represented stormy daniels and karen mcdougal and secure deals for their silence about alleged affairs with trump and the crucial months before the 2016 an election. but any effort to make them the villains and donald trump, the victims countered by prosecutors who played the phone conversation, michael cohen secretly recorded and cnn exclusively obtained featuring donald trump taking

an active role in the karen mcdougal deal hi need to open up a company for the transfer of water back info regarding our friend david yeah. >> so i'm going to do that right away. i'd actually come up. i stopped me and i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with the funding yes and it's all the stuff. >> all the stuff because here is you never know when that company never know where he's going to be getting correct. so i'm i'm all over that. and i spoke to alan about it when it comes time for the financing, which will be well, i have to pay so get on i got no a forensic analysts from the da's office also took the stand today, testifying to the chain of custody of that recording that you just heard. now, this was necessary because unlike in most trials, the defense is refusing to stipulate that certain evidence

entered into the record is true. as to this morning's contempt hearing prosecutors asked judge juan merchan to sanction the former president for a second time this week, for an additional four violations they say of his gag order after court today, he mentioned those restrictions and cited them inaccurately to make this false claim. >> well, i'm not allowed to test if i am under again, go under i can't even testified now we're going to be appealing the game but not allowed to testify this judge, who's coming conflict, it has to be under an unconstitutional gag order nobody's ever had that before. >> there's never been any abuse like this before. >> this conflicted jets you to get added this case, you shouldn't be he should not be happening this case. it gives us nothing. it's such a rigged court so i'm not allowed to testify because of that unconstitutional gag order were appealing. the gag order. and let's see what happens that plain and simple in legal terms

is nonsense. >> he has every right to testify in his defense. he has said that he would then last week, he waffled saying he would testify, quote, if it's necessary now it seems to be laying the groundwork for backing out entirely. as always, plenty to talk about back with us as new york defense attorney arthur aidala former federal prosecutor, bestselling author geoffrey tube and newsnight anchor abby phillips sources, kaitlan collins, cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, and the new york times, maggie haberman, who was in court today. maggie, what was in court today it's surreal everyday, but i would say that the strangest moment came toward the end of the de and it was a rough de of testimony. >> keith pleaded get some dings into him on cross-examination. it got very tense. he got very flustered. he ended up sounding pretty weaselly as he was giving answers, but prosecutors played these exchanges between cohen secretly taped. one was with keith davidson and then the other was michael cohen and trump, which you just played. and that tape is basically what jurors we're left with as the

most dramatic testimony for the day. there was some other not particularly interesting testimony at the very end, as you say, from a custodian of records basically saying that he had checked out cohen's phone and it was all forensically true that this material came from it, but we still don't really know what the jury thinks. and i think that's really important to bear in mind. >> can you describe the cohen trump recording is a doozy well, i mean, look, we've heard this tape for which again is a legal term, so right. thank you. very clarifying for me. it's been six years, almost to the day that we know about this tape. and so it's obviously not new to us, but i think when you are hearing it a as a juror and be in the context of that courtroom. it just sounded very different, particularly at a time when trump's lawyers were arguing that this was essentially we'll just keith davidson and michael cohen. they didn't make this argument explicitly, but they were leaning into the idea that these two were just freelancing and the davidson was essentially extorting trump. and so that didn't get dispelled from that tape. but the idea that trump didn't know

what have it's also the first time that the jury has heard from trump. that's because i mean, we see him talking going into the gorp coming out of the court saying things that are true is you just show there even though todd blanche his attorneys shook his head. yes. when the idea that he's not allowed to testify is just not true it and trump looked to him for affirmation and he shook his head. yes. >> but in the in the courtroom okay is very quiet. he lists first his attorneys something that they were annoyed about. it sounded like today when it's reported, how often they're speaking. >> but you can't hear what he's saying. >> and for the most part, he has his eyes closed a lot during the prosecution asking questions of the witnesses. he was watching as keith davidson was being cross-examined today. but this is really the first time the jury has actually heard trump so voice which i think is what makes that tape so remarkable. >> so many elements at that tape. to analyze. and if you're the juror and you're going home for the night and you're replaying it in your mind, maybe some of them have heard it before. maggie's point. it's been out there for awhile but first, just the fact that

it exists, i think is incredibly notable. michael cones tone in the call is also incredibly notable. trump then, kind of correcting him about the means of funding this thing that strikes out to you immediately that he wants it to be in cash, not not financed, quote, unquote. there's so many elements of it that if you're just from a human perspective, not a legal perspective. that replays in my mind. i imagined the jurors would be thinking about all of those aspects of it as they're trying to analyze that takes you from the lawyers. >> but what i think today, we saw almost for the first time is there is a coherent theory of the defense in this case, you may not buy it and the jury may not buy it, but the theory here here is that michael cohen and keith davidson cooked up a profit-making scheme to get money out of donald trump on the eve of the election. and by the way, michael cohen made over $400,000 out of this scheme which you've got later

in 2017 and that's the defense here. it's not crazy and it may yet be refuted by the prosecution, but at least it is a theory of why donald trump is my job. >> what yeah. i'm just trying to be roll here, what's up? i'm trying to be fair so since you did my job for me ends and the part that i'm still struggling with is that an individual who was the president of the united states, who wants to be the president of the united states, said something as really so foolish that i can testify because of this gag order as a citizen, i'll take my hat off as the defense attorney has a citizen that that's scary actually, i mean, you learn that it's like sixth or seventh grade, right? >> you have a constitutional right to defend yourself. you'll learn about miranda rights, anything you say can be held again xu and look, i feel my heart goes out to todd blanche. i don't know. you do, but you're in that position and

trump is such an overpowering presence and he says something ridiculous like that. and your instinct is to protect him but you want to correct them and that's a disaster i mean, it's ridiculous statement, but it doesn't impact doesn't in fact about this tape for a minute because that to me is maybe the single-most it's important piece of evidence in this case. >> this is the tape michael cohen made secretly of donald trump when michael cohen was a lawyer, dominant was the client. in 2016. >> i shows you a lot about michael cohen's confidence in his client. >> hear that his voice. so that's the first place i was going to start. >> i have scrutinized this tape. i have listened to. i have a piece coming out on it tomorrow. i've listened to every word of it. i hate this tape from a prosecutor's point of view. first of all, the circumstances, how shady is that for michael cohen who secretly arthur aidala, you ever secretly recorded one of your clients or even think about it exact point the universe, right? but, but it's on michael color, right? joseph, so that's point number one. point number two, the tape itself, it's good for prosecutors in that it shows

for sure donald trump knew about the payments to karen mcdougal, knew it was $150,000 and was okay with it. but that's not the crime. i keep saying it. the crime is in the accounting of it. the structuring of it. and when it gets to that, trump is fairly ignorant of that. and cohen says to him, and i quote, no, no, no, no, no. i got it. and later he says, leave the stuff, lead the nuances, the details to allen weisselberg and me, and that's the defense right there down. trump knew their hush money hush money is not a crime the structuring of it that was michael cohen and alloway is berg, they kept trump out and that's what we know from the tape. >> i would make the argument that we didn't know what cohen is going to testify to. we do know that cohen versus trump would be or cohen versus the defense will be a he said he said and then the jury is going to have to decide which and then they believed we have seen the prosecutors already extracting testimony from various witnesses that is not favorable to michael cohen because what they're clearly trying to do is take the air out of a big reveal when the defense cross examines cohen, but i don't know that all we know is on this tape there. all

we can definitively definitively know is on that tape, but i don't know what else is going to be said. and i do think that the documentation in this case look, i think we have not heard a whole lot about with the actual chronos. we have heard a lot about a conspiracy. we have not heard a whole lot about what the actual crime that they have charged him with. and i think that you will hear the defense about that, but i do think that the documentation in the case and that evidence is pretty significant. it's not just relying on testimony. yeah. i will set the trump team feels really good about how their cross-examination of keith davidson went today especially where he was talking about michael cohen and how michael cohen called keith davidson kind of using him as a therapist to lament the fact that trump was not going to bring him into the administration. and keith davidson testified that they cohen seemed suicidal and that point because of everything that was happening. >> but where they felt that it was really the most effective was going after davidson. >> we've got incredibly contentious for the first time that we've really seen it be that high of a temper, i think inside the courtroom, as they were drilling down on him, questioning him about whether or not he was extorting trump,

likening the other people that he has worked with when it comes to whole cogen, lindsay lohan, charlie sheen, and kinda trying to flip bluster keith davidson, which it seemed to be somewhat successful. i don't know how it run the court read in the core, it was it was it was tough sledding. >> i mean, it was really hard watching it in the just two days ago, two days ago, he was paused he wished and he got almost timid. one thing that was very striking to me in my colleagues watching this is that when david pecker was walking, who is the former and my head was walking through his details of his engagement with michael cohen. and really this business of sleaze that he was in charge of he didn't seem ashamed at all. he was almost carefree about the whole thing. keith davidson seemed really embarrassed as he was getting pushed on the kinds of deals that he was seeking over and over and over again and in terms of pushing celebrities for, i have this client who claims they had an affair with you or this that and the other and in that way, pecker is actually much more i like

trump, where there is just this sort of, i'm not going to be shamed out of the ring davidson came off angry, sheepish on certain hostile at certain points and he got his backup a few times and seem to find its footing, but it wasn't it was not a great outing for him. there's a reason and emil bove eight has been very strong and these cross-examinations, so he and he's one of the differences. maybe one of the reasons and the lawyers who you can talk to it that the difference between pecker khuza'a businessman, he's in this just to make money. he doesn't care as lawyers, we have these ethical obligations would take it old where's this supposed to be a moral high ground? you're not supposed to be extorting people. you're not supposed to be accused of extorting people. as a lawyer, you're not supposed to be investigated for extorting people as a lawyer all of those things happened to him. so i could see it being much more defensive, been pecker's yeah, did this and i made the company millions though. >> one thing i think we learned today was wide david pecker was put first by the prosecution because the argument in the

prosecution is look pecker and trump in-person, not some deputy, but tracker and trump made this agreement to protect him before the election all the rest of this is the execution of that. and sure. these people are the defenses. keith davidson is terrible. michael cohen is terrible, but the pressure in the process secretion is going to ask at the end of the case, is who benefited from all this? who is who is the person who is above it all of the fine details, but who set this process in motion? the argument that prosecution is going to make is that it was donald trump he was he set it in motion and he was the beneficiary and all these sleeves fact, all these sleazy people were just doing what trump will also is the argument that all these sleazy people are living in the petri dish that donald trump has built. >> well, that's i think the real risk. and i'm curious what the lawyers on this panel thank but i think that is the real risk for the defense with what the jury here says, the jury

here, that there's gradations of this or there's the jury hold. donald trump accountable for everything they're going to hear about michael cohen, about david pecker, about keith davidson, that this was what was taking place. michael cohen referred donald trump for a really long time and it's probably going to be a big stretch for the defense to ask the jury to believe that michael cohen was off doing his own thing all the time. maybe especially given that relationship, i hundred percent agree. i mean the question comes up, how do you substantiate whether donald trump was fully aware of all the contours of it, not just that the payment was being made, but that it was being made for the purposes of the election, et cetera, et cetera. but one of the things that i think some of these witnesses have a stat has established is that trump uses emissaries intermediaries to execute the things that he does. and from a common sense perspective, if you're on the jury, i don't think that's hard to understand that a person like donald trump would use michael cohen to do as dirty work. i

mean, it's just it's just not that hard to bridge that gap from just a common sense perspective, we go to take a quick break next, john berman, who has been going through today's trial transcript for the closer look at the picture of the jurors are getting of michael cohen oh, and also the very latest from university campuses around the country, including ucla. we're police moved in overnight so it's the playoffs. >> what brings you? to adhere today? while you're looking at do you really have to ask for my missile says, look, i know it can be stressful. this tab a year for great teammates build each other up, the trust and the other will be there for them when they were gonna do a trust walls stand up, you close your eyes for trust what he suddenly up doc i've you he was abdominal you're calling some people find there's at an early age others later in life no matter when you find it,

consider yourself lucky because it becomes your everything are calling was to build trucks. >> and that's why trucks or what we do we put our everything and every truck so that when you find your calling nothing can stop you from answering nothing dems my light, like a migraine with nortech ott. i found really the only migrate he medication that helps treat and prevent all-in-one to those with migraines. >> i see you for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine and adults don't take if allergic to nortech odi team allergic reactions can occur even days after using most common side effects are nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time talk to a health care provider about nortech ott from pfizer? >> yeah, introducing nets, plaque psoriasis. >> he thinks is blakey read patents are all people seek oh, tesla is the number one prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis oh, tesla can help

you get clear. >> don't use a tesla if you're allergic to it, serious allergic reactions can happen tesla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting some people take new tesla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight-loss, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache may occur. >> live in the moment ask your doctor about tesla when you have a leader and disaster clean up and restoration, how do you make like it never even happened, happened all right whatever comes your way. there's a pro for that. >> serve pro, like it never even happened one thing i might when it's time for an update or complete remodel, rebirth is with you every step of the way.

>> is this going to be readying hard for them? maybe from design and products do removal, and installation which i get we handled the entire process. do data beautiful and functional bathroom or whatever your life needs ran with you e every step of the way. color visit rebuffed.com for your free in-home design consultation. >> bring into savings this moving season with pods. they've up to 25% now i'm moving in storage in see why pods it's been trusted with over 6 million moves, but don't wait,

you've got xfinity wifi at home. take it on the go with xfinity mobile. customers now get exclusive access to wifi speed up to a gig in millions of locations. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free. that's like getting two unlimited lines for twenty dollars a month each for a year. so, ditch the other guys and switch today. buy one line of unlimited, get one free for a year with xfinity mobile! plus, save even more and get an eligible 5g phone on us! visit xfinitymobile.com today. xiao powering progress how we'd really happy with jesse l. martin sunday's at nine on cnn we talked before the break about how the defense in cross-examining former stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, attorney keith davidson tried to leave jurors with the impression that he was in effect on a shakedown. >> their client also to cast doubt on the credibility of expected upcoming witness, michael cohen, six years ago,

seen in service-side in your talk to davidson about his dealings with cohen he had this to say, but the financial arrangement at the heart of this trial did michael cohen ever indicate to you that he was paying this $130,000 for stormy daniel's out of his own personal finances yes and back then, did he say to you, look, i'm having to take a loan out of my house to get this done is that a yes no now, there's never any conversation about that joining us now with more of keith davidson, final hours on the stand, john berman. >> so the prosecution asked davidson about that exchange in that interview? yeah. very specifically. and once again, told the jury the same thing. basically, he told sarah sinnner, steinglass, the prosecutor asked my next question is, did you directing your attention, i guess too early april of 2018, did you go on cnn and say that michael cohen used his own funds to pay stormy daniel's. davidson says, i believe so. the prosecutor s and why did you say that? davidson says? because i understood that he did prosecutor based on the

same statement that he made at the time of the transaction question, mark davidson says an even later on that december 9th conversation that i had with him at the department store where he said he had not been reimbursed just so you know, in that conversation, davidson said, quote, that f-in guy is not even paying be the $130,000 back. so you can see here he wants again is saying it was specifically from cohen in one other bit. i want to read you that just came out. they just released the second part of the transcript from the de in this gets to what you were both saying, jeffrey, especially about the theory of the offense that in a way trump was being extorted to pay this money. this is an exchange about leverage and will beauvais, the defense attorney in this case? asked davidson that was ms daniels goal, was it not to create leverage over president trump? now, keith davidson initially says no then later, a meal beauvais says, do you recall saying that mr. cohen i won't be the lisbeth least bit surprised if he comes out and says, as you know what stormy daniel's she wanted this money more than you could ever

imagine. i remember hearing her on the phone saying, you, ethene keith davidson, you better settle this god story because if he loses this election and he is going to lose, if he loses this election, we lose all f-ing leverage. this case is worth zero. do you recall saying that to mr. cohen this time david bissen says i do. >> okay. so this is the sleeves factor and it is through the roof. in this case. and part of it is atmospheric. they want to just turn off the jury. the defense wants the jury to just think, who knows, this is a bunch of people who lie and threaten each other and paige other off. but it also goes to an important prong of the defense if the defense believes this is a shakedown i'm not talking about the legal elements of extortion just in the normal use of that phrase, a shakedown. it's over. there's no crime here. the alleged crime is they're trying to do something to get a benefit in that campaign. and they're intentionally trying to get around campaign finance laws that none of that works. if this is a shakedown, and i was surprised today hey by the extent to which the prosecution

allowed and the judge allowed this specter of extortion to be injected into the case. were you investigated mr. davidson for extortion? yes, i was not charged, but investigated. and boy, every time the defense just says that word, extortion over and over, it's ringing a bell believe, what the jury and i think it's gonna be a problem. do you remember cross to your point, do you remember todd blanche opened on it and is opening statement, any color? >> i believe he either called her stormy and extortionist are referred to extortion objection. sustained. strike that from the record. so in his opening, when todd blanche said the evidence is going to show stormy daniels was extorting you. the judge wouldn't let him use that word, but it turns out that's the direction they're heading. >> let me see if i could just read one little bit of that. in this case that events attorney says in 2016, you were pretty well-versed in getting right up to the line with if out, committing extortion. right. and then davidson says, i don't understand your question. just getting the word and like you were saying but i

mean jeff, if even if it is extortion or was an attempted extortion if why would that nullify it as? >> i mean, if trump decides to pay it off to avoid that to meet their demands, couldn't that still be about the election well, i think if he is the victim of a crime, you would not. >> i don't think the jury would find who wanted what is the difference between torsion and that's it. that i think is the key issue here, is that anytime you pay someone not to say x, which is not illegal, i mean, you pay someone or you have a noncompete agreement, you are paying someone. so they will not do something and you can argue that that was extortion, but this i mean, i can see why the government would respond and say, look, this is an extortion, this is donald trump paying to make sure a bad story doesn't come out, period. that's davidson was so parsing his words today with the

prosecution when they were wrapping up with him before the cross-examination, he wouldn't even call it. >> hush. it's money. he he he wouldn't even go that far the way he was describing this agreement with stormy daniel's, what i was going to struck by was how also they got into just how far this stretching to when donald trump was in the white house. i mean, it was january 2018. donald trump was delivering the state of the union all of. this stuff was percolating out there. the wall street journal was reporting and following up on it and other outlets. and i remembered that was the state of the union where belonging trump drove separately from donald trump because she was irritated by what was becoming public, what we were learning about. meanwhile, they were furiously racing around keith davidson and michael cohen to stop her from speaking. >> but either that excerpt from the testimony that berman just read stormy daniels knows this is all about the election. she says, when this election is over, i don't have any leverage anymore that that suggests to me everybody involved in this transaction knows that the money is being paid to keep this information away from the shouldn't be been talking

about how it's not about whether the money was paid or not. it was about how it was done and the way it was it was kept from the public. so i guess i'm wondering. i if donald trump was the victim of extortion maybe, but either way, he's still concocted a scheme to pay the money in a way that was allegedly illegal. and i think that's a helpful reminder just again, because people sometimes may lose track of what exactly the crime is, the payoff to stormy daniel's is a two-part trend section. >> first, michael cohen took this $130,000 down off his mortgage, paid himself over to stormy daniels through keith davidson. then in the weeks and months after that, he was reimbursed for multiples of that 400 something thousand dollars through donald trump and the trump organization through a series of checks and the allegation here is that reimbursement using this series of checks was a fraud. they tried to make it look like donald trump was paying legal fees, retainers to michael cohen, to cover up the fact that what was really happening is they were reimbursing them

for the one-thirty that he paid to stormy daniels to keep her quiet? in connection with the campaign, and i agree, by the way, evidence that this is related to the campaign is overwhelming. i don't see how any realistic juror could think there was not some substantial campaign relationship going really quickly, just he didn't make money off of this. the reason it was higher than what he paid is because of the taxa that he was. i think he got 60 gridded get to play next season let's $60,000 was for actually doing this. it was what he says he was paid for. >> there was a leak. yeah. she's saying that was part of his legal fee, but to your point, i think if the fence and jeffries point if the defense is successful with that line like it, we're going to lose all leverage, leverage of what, leverage of what leveraged extort him leveraged to get the money from them. we're going to lose all leverage. in other words, why if he's not running for president in the united states, then he's got no reason to buy this at all. >> i'm sorry. >> maybe we're about to make this all right you can say it's leveraged for extortion, but it can also be leveraged because she wants to be paid

for her store. i mean, that doesn't have if you don't hold is not running for president of the united states. if you don't give me money, i'm going to tell the world that you're sleazebags. who sleeps here's one, here's another scenario that's extortion. >> if you are, if you're if you're a victim of a if you're a victim of sexual harassment and you've sued someone, and you there's a limit to the amount of time that you have to do that, right? that's a welsh. okay. sure. but but isn't the idea that this came up recently you come up to the edge of that, of that cry, of that statute of limitations. let's call it and then you say you want to get some civil your page. here's your final not if not if there's a lawsuit, you can tell you if there's not a lot once you michael avenatti is doing jail time for something very similar there was no loss or he went in and said, if you don't give me i'll defer let me speak about extortion for sex i charged up

watch extortion cases. i get the easy kind, the outbreak your knees kind juries understand that just to be clear, no. yes. yes. thank right and then there's this gray area and arthur is right where what if someone saying i'm going to come out with information that's damaging to you. sometimes that gets prosecuted. michael avenatti is in jail because he extorted nike. he said, i have this information that's gonna be damaging to your company. hence, you have to pay me bill cosby before he got in trouble before that all came out, there was a prosecution of a woman who extorted built cosby where that line is, i'll tell you the legal answer wrongful. what wrongful means is in the eye of the beholder, it's in the eye of the prosecutor. it's in the eye of the jury. it's a gray area. it as a non-lawyer, i can say one of the reasons perhaps that they've had david pecker and everyone explaining the whole catching kill scheme. one man's catch and kill, another man's iq storage christian, you have meetings that donald trump was part of where they're discussing how to buy these stories are how to keep them from being published. that indicates a certain

intentionality that may not be it doesn't matter elie, do you think? >> if stormy daniels was telling the truth, does it goes to the wrongfulness because it is different in the law's eyes and the jury's eyes imagined she fabricated this. and i said wrongful is the key question here. it's way more wrongful than if it actually happened. >> that's also why the prosecution made the point with key david, keith davidson, donald trump does not part with his money easily and anyone around donald trump knows that he's not just paying someone six figures to keep them quiet. remember they did quiet one guy who had false allegations that doorman $30,000 trump, that was the news, ami right. >> am i right? >> coming up? we're going to have more new transcripts this time from the gag order hearing and why the defense argued the former president was not attacking the jury when he said the jury was quote, 95% democrats morning. >> fashion moves fast, setting trends is our business we need to scale these customer demand in real time. so we partner

with verizon, their solution for us, a private by gi network. >> we now get more trollope production efficiencies and greater agility with a custom private 5g networks, our customers get what they want when they want it. >> now, or even smarter and are ready for what? this next achieve enterprise intelligence, it's your vision, it's your verizon, spirit. >> yeah, let me nice going though. nothing like a little confidence boost to help ease you back into the dating scene. that includes having a smile. you feel good about fortunately, aspen dental specializes the dentures and implants made just for you and with flexible financing, you don't need to sacrifice quality work for price that fits your budget at $0 down plus 0% interest if paid in full 18 months, helping our patients, but their best mile for it. it's one more way has been dead to is in your corner america is in a race for its future. >> our nation has a and then foil and natural gas to make us more energy independent we have

the advantage, but foreign nations want to fill growing energy needs in leave america got in the dust. weakening our security, and idling our economy we can't let that happen let's harness america's energy advantage and secure our future. lights on energy you let me just say, i love planet fitness try now planet fitness and then they got lots of equipment. >> did you know that the app has worked? saltz who can do at home all the benefits oh, for less planet fitness, big fitness, energy for all welcome to the roots of our legacy we're excellence comfort and electricity are forever in blue welcome to beyond the mercedes mark. >> he suv somebody would ask.

>> her something and she would just walk right past. didn't know they were talking to her. >> i just could not hear i was hesitant to get the hearing aids because of my short hair, but nobody even sees them are nearly invisible. hearing aids or just one reason we've been the brand leader for over 75 years when i finally get here for the first time, i could hear everything called ear at one three,ike a pro

pain-free absorb been pro glows captioning brought to you by, feel away, optimum enhanced calming for cats. >> if your cat spraying outside the litter box fights with other cats or scratches the furniture, they could be telling you they're stressed to help them feel more calm, try feel away optimum morning transcripts this time deal detailing an important moment in the gag order hearing about one of the four more recent alleged violations. this was an

interview of the former president gave monday last week when he said that the jury was quote, 95% democrats, judge merchan said he spoke about the jury, right? than the defense attorney todd blanche responds, pardon me. and judge merchan says, and he said that the jury was 95% democrats and that the jury had been rushed through. and the implication being that this is not a fair jury. that's the implication that was given to anybody that heard that comment. this is not a fair jury. moments later, blanche responded. again. he's talking about again in a passing phrase about the overall proceedings being unfair and political. the jury joining our panel now former federal judge, nancy gertner what do you make, judge gertner, just in general, how merchan his handling the gag order drama so far, i think he's doing a great job. i mean, he is not being baited he's sort of inner hewing to the language of his order which has been affirmed measuring what trump did by that. and really resisting being baited. the gag order during the course of a trial in one sense, is

even more important than a gag order before, because you have a juror juror sitting there knowing that they are the decision-makers so this the kinds of threats about witnesses and about the jurors themselves matter more than if it's just diffusely going out into the public. >> so i think i think he's doing a great job regarding michael cohen. >> i mean, is it legally relevant that michael cohen? had been at least until recently going after trump online. i mean, should the judge amend the gag order so trump can hit back at michael cohen. michael cohen is sort of a public figure as a podcast i think the judge is not supposed to be concerned about the given taken the public arena. he's trying to sort of hermetically seal his courtroom and michael, there's no sort of invited response michael kahn can say whatever he wants, although i suspect the prosecutors are probably calling up his lawyer now and saying, would you please shut up like now but that shouldn't matter. the judges only concerned about the people in front of him over whom he has authority to make

sure that they're not responding. trump will have an opportunity to trash everyone as you surely will win. this trial is over. so i wouldn't worry about his first amendment right? >> i think marchand was somewhat sympathetic to the michael cohen issue because michael cohen has been beating the hell out of trump in there is a sense of fairness about the response, but that line about the jury that's the thing that's worse than anything else trump has said, because that means he has been looking into the jurors backgrounds. that means he has reached conclusions about them and hur honore. your honor, can correct me, but i think judges are especially concerned about jurors much more even than witness this is especially in public figures like already seen. a juror who was in the jury pool say, you know, i don't want to i don't want to deal with this anymore, so i mean, he could be concerned about that this is not a jury that has been sequestered you're right. we don't really do that anymore. and so these

are threats that could affect the very decision-makers in this case, as opposed to the public in general, which are more concerned about in gag orders before the trial threats, there's a big difference between a threat and saying and jeffrey, i don't think you got to do a lot of research to know that their majority democrats would. >> he got me 13% of the vote? denver i could 87% of the vote i mean, my 17-year-old could kind of figure out majority of democrats and all he said was it was rushed through, which maybe was a little bit and the end he said, i can't get a fair trial with this jerry. that's not a threat. he will that's an opportunity to say it wasn't a fair trial. >> he doesn't do it during the course. i'm getting i'm becoming a judge in a minute during the course of my hearing just saying this is my cottage the jury's a third row. >> you can't talk about the jury yeah, i would if i could ask the judge what we while we have you would there come a point? could there come a point where if you reassigned to

handle the rest of this case and donald trump kept doing this would you actually lock him up under contempt that's hard i mean, i think you may reach a point where you'd have to do that just to be able to preserve the legitimacy of the proceedings. >> but men that would be right down the line. i think that roshan did the right thing by threatening it here's where we're going to start. we're going to start with money. and every time you're going to be have to pay money and i'm going to consider and detaining you in the bowels of this courthouse, which can't be very nice. and then after that, we'll go somewhere else. but i think any judge would hesitate why would it be hesitant though? >> because you don't want to? well, one this is disruption that it will cause. there's no question about it, and the government didn't even seek his detention today. and i think it's one disruption to there'll be appeals up and down the line and to renal martyr him. >> can i ask you what something that one of trump's attorneys, susan nicholas, who certainly knows the new york court system very well did today. she had

this issue, the stack of articles, a lot of comments from legal commentators who are on fox news. and she basically wanted the judge. she said to look through them and make sure that trump could post them without violating the gag order. the judge said i'm not going to be in the position of looking at posts in advance and determining that one. how unusual is that, too? i mean they, do think that was effort and good faith or that whether the lawyers effort was in good faith, no. does she actually want the judge to look through i can't imagine that you went and i can imagine he would indulge them think that that was the right. that's sort of a classic prior restraint. here are the things that you hear, the articles you may not post. now, the other gag order is already a prior restraint. here are the areas you can't cover, but he doesn't want to get into the nuances of who's saying what he doesn't want to give trump a script. he can say, don't do x minus and see what trump is doing is not even remotely subtle. write that he, he's attacking witnesses and

jurors. it's not even subtle know susan did that good faith. >> i know susan nicholas for a long time. she's a task lawyer. i am positive she did that in good faith and she probably said, judge, he wants to retweet this particular article. he doesn't want to violated it's written by ali, who is on his side and he wants to retweet it. kenny, do that, but but that's not but churches job till like review things in addition, is order. of course, it's his job it's like, what am i twilight zone. his order. he could change it anyway. >> evaluate if this on one violates it, but he's not like there to be a lawyer totally. do i have done it? i did it yesterday yesterday, judge when my in federal court that you're not allowed to speak to any of your codefendants or any of the employees who worked for the corporation? well, now he's pled guilty and for his sentencing memo, he wants letters from his former employees saying what a great guy he was my judge do with a violet, your order, which you said he can't talk to the

employees. and can we speak to them that said you adjust your order? >> if trump had said, can i talk about x and the judge could say yes, that fits within that my order or doesn't it can i talk about why that would different but to look at an article and say, well, i think that it would violate the order. not that doesn't that's where i've line that's not his role. he can say permission here are the lines that i'm going to draw and any rational human being would know whether or not they have violated. >> let me ask you about the pace of the trial so far, judge. the judge merchan said earlier, the city that appears to be running ahead of schedule do you concur with that? is that well, you said six to eight weeks the jury selection did take was was quicker than anyone anticipated, which is they actually may ultimately be an issue in the case. >> but it sounds like from his own model of when, how long this was going to be and it is moving more, it is moving more quickly, which goes back to the question about trump's speech his day will come. it's not that he will be forever barred

from talking about this case. he's only going to be barred while jurors are sitting there. >> but if i can just add one point about the gag order for all of trump's complaints, he's been abiding by it. he gets up and he says this gag order is outrageous. the judge's unfair all of which he's permitted to say. but ever since the contempt finding, he has not talked about jurors, he has not talked about witnesses. so i think actually in the system is working every day is not and trump is not prohibited from talking about this trial. he is prohibited about certain from certain categories and he's he's actually following those rules. i can do concern and stuff that predated the gag order. >> well, the pre-dated the finding of the violation right. to tell the judge's point. this case, there's been sorted elements of this case. trump's conduct outside the courtroom, i think has been a boring, but the trial itself is running smooth and efficient. i mean, everyone's behaving themselves. >> the lawyers generally are doing a good job. >> judge merchan, i think is

doing a nice job of keeping this thing on track. and i think that's important because everyone's watching this trial and it really needs to be fair and efficient and not a circus. and i think to all the parties credits, that's where we're at so far, not making any promises, but as of today that that's my raises a different question, which is, boy, do i wish they were cameras in this courtroom? >> yeah. i was a federal judge and we did not have cameras. i think that was so totally wrong. it would be wonderful to be able to see a dignified proceeding in the midst of immediate circuits that thank you, everyone. >> more on the trial coming up coming up next after this break, the latest on the protests and some college campuses the scenes from ucla last night and this morning, smoke bombs and flashbangs used to a break up the camp and their love. a live report from that campus. and what prison biden said today about the demonstrations across the country now, explore the world, the viking way, from the quiet comfort of elegance, small ships with no children and no

casinos we actually have reinvented ocean voyages, designing all inclusive experiences for the thing king pass viking voted world's best by both traveling leisure and condi nast traveler learn more at viking, not i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis thanks to sky rizzi. >> i'm playing with clearer skin. three out of four people achieve 90% we're skin and four months and scares e is just four doses a year after two starter doses, theory is allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them may occur. tell you dr. if you have an infection or symptoms had a vaccine or plan to the sky rizzi, nothing on my skin means every eschar dermatologists about learn how advocate help you save sometimes the lows of bipolar depression feel darkest before dawn with cap lighter, there's a chance to lead in the light kept lighter is

proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar one kept lighter treats both bipolar one and two depression. >> and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain, we're not common, call your doctor about sudden mood changes. >> behaviors, or suicidal thoughts, antidepressants may increase these risks and young adults, elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke reported fever, confusion, stiff, or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life-threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects calculator can help you let in the light as your doctor about kept finds dating, and support at kept blight a.com a widely filter. it's well-designed efficient. >> i appreciate that. we filters technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good, guaranteed. >> what more could you ask for kalisa, three, three leaf filter today? >> physically filter.com water would help with this dry spots. >> that's long disease. >> but scots healthy plus will cure it's lawn disease going around.

>> so like other people have it and it's not recover back of a newscaster field are healthy plus lawn three today hello. >> smile. you found it the feeling of findings, psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only take to a once-daily pill for moderate to severe prac psoriasis and the chance that clear or almost clear skin, it's like the feeling of finding yourself ready for your closeout. are finding you don't have to hide your skin. just your background once daily. so tiktok was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to so take too serious reactions can occur. so ticked, you can lower your ability to fight infection we've including tb, serious infections, cancers, including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides or head of sener plan to. so tick to is a tick to inhibitor tick two as part of the jak family, it's not known as though tiktok has the same risks as jak inhibitors fine, what plaque psoriasis has been hiding there's only one,

so tick two. ask for it by name. so clearly you so tick to did read this did i get x? where are my keys? >> memory and thinking issues keep piling up. it may be due to a buildup of amyloid plaques in the brain. visit more than normal aging.com mom jeans she passed them down to you? but who pass them to her those mom jeans helped make her who she is show her with ancestry dna this mother's day. she can see the traits she inherited the places where they started, and the people shehe shares the widh best of all, it's on sale for mother's day. get it now. >> before she has to remind you, i'm arlette saenz at the white house, and this is cnn anticipation is building for

who we may hear from him tomorrow is hearing and whether it'll be of any of the high-profile witnesses to come including possibly former white house counselor hope hicks, once considered one of the foreign presence closest confidantes and most trusted aides back here with the team in new york when who's on the sand tomorrow, who starts off tomorrow? >> do we know they haven't said for sure they don't announce this obviously publicly, but but what they've been doing is folding in the super interesting juicy witnesses. >> would those who bring the records, i think it could be more of the records people potentially, but i do think after that there is an open question of who fits next in this narrative. hope hicks has been widely speculated about toys. we don't know that it is going to be her, but in that audio tape that they played in the courtroom today, it it does. i believe you can hear her voice in the background. she was obviously around for those key conversations with michael cohen oh, and she could be a natural fit potential was how are hope hicks and kellyanne conway seen in the trump world today? >> so two very different figures on hope i started with

her vote since i didn't the white house, she had one focus. she's not ideological. she's not particularly partisan. her, role in the white house was to protect donald trump at all costs. she sees herself as a trump loyalist first and foremost, i'm a little surprised that there has been some kind of media scuttle, but that perhaps she's really going to turn on him and this is going to be a big moment where she reveals what he did wrong. i think she's going to tell the truth as instructed by her attorneys, but i think she will stay very well within the lines of anything she what, she won't want to say anything that's incriminating to the former president and kellyanne conway. i mean, she's still clings to the inner circle. she's from a certain perspective advising the campaign right now. i don't know that either are a slam dunk for the prosecution in any sense yeah. >> i mean, in many ways, think about why you'd want her remember, they cannot play the access hollywood tape. they are not allowed to its two prejudicial according to the judge, they can reference the fallout from the access hollywood tape for framing purposes of the prosecution, you want to make the connection that the reason why he was motivated to try to fall falsify business record or even pay this person differently

than he had said karen mcdougal was because they were concerned about the impact to the campaign from the fallout of the access hollywood tape. so if you've got emails, if you've got discussions, if you've got communications with who picks as the connecting dot between the campaign and the fallout so access hollywood to where we are now. >> that's when they're most useful. >> and she need not frankly, even be somebody to turn on trump or to me, or to turn against him. >> she asked to be somebody to say, well, look, it was contemplated the fallout was major. we thought there was a chance that if there was one more straw they fell on perhaps the evangelical vote are back, or the women voters back, or just the electoral voters in general that could have been the end of the campaign. that's the concern you have to convey. >> i think one of the most interesting questions about the prosecution is this point is do they call karen mcdougal and even do they call stormy daniels? >> that's because that's a great point do you think they need to as a technical legal

matter, i don't i don't think so. >> i mean, the checks have been introduced the purpose behind the checks have been introduced and so they don't have to prove that the sex took place. that's not part of the case. >> and they may think that the prosecutors may think this is too much of a spectacle, too much of a sideshow. >> and so i don't know. i mean, i think stormy daniels is likely because it is her transaction that is really in the heart of this case. but karen mcdougal, it's it's essentially background information the prosecution has has already put forward all about the transaction. i don't know if they need or so before i get to that point, when you talk about tomorrow, it's all about strategy, right? and when you're a defense attorney, you're exhausted. you you're literally exhausted. and if you put on the prosecution puts on a key witness tomorrow on friday, the fence has saturday and sunday to see okay. this is

the direct they're going to have daily copy and they could really prepare very well for the cross-examination on monday. so when i was a prosecutor, i tried to put on like nonsensical went no big deal. witnesses, but i think on a friday on a friday. so that i don't give the advantage that the defense attorney to have that weekend prep what jeffrey is saying though, is, i've been thinking about that. do they really need stormy daniels? but if you give the defense the opportunity to go up there and say, i am as defense attorney, i am telling you my client is always said he didn't have sex with stormy daniels and this was a shakedown. these were absolutely false allegations this is a just paid this money just to even if it was for the presidential election, it changes. now he really is a victim of extortion. so i think they're going to have to bring her in and she's going to say, yes, we had sex. where when has a defense attorney you wouldn't and you or represented trump, you would not want

stormy daniels and karen mcdougal to testify, correct? >> but you know what, you don't have to mean. remember there they one of the objections that came during the opening, which we all know opening statement injections are pretty rare. you want to have everyone have their flow. one got comment that instantly got sustained by the judge was was alluding that stormy was an extortionist that's something that the judge is going to have on a very tight leash. number one. number two, it really doesn't matter if they actually were engaged in a sexual affair, anything any more than it matters whether at that time and his gosh, with billy bush, he really did grabbing by the pi all that matters is the fallout an idea of whether it would impact how he was perceived enough to motivate him to make a payment and falsified may ask you just in terms of the impression to the jury, if they hear that donald trump has denied even knowing keratin going to go or denied. and you already have testimony from david pecker saying he would ask about karen mcdougal repeatedly going or our girl and karen saying

she's a nice girl does it help to actually have them on the stand to tell their sayyed the story and the jury then if they believe those two, then they are less likely to believe donald trump. >> well, yeah, he's lying about that. i mean, yes but it also as a strategic reason, even though i know conceptually, i don't need to have this to check off the boxes to maybe move the elements. >> i've got a jury whose leaning into the most, i want them in the palm of my hand to be leaning in to know on these moments what you're hearing is so important. number one, number two so it's going to look bad for the prosecution. you mean there's all this talk about michael collins or manuals? i don't call them a juror is going to think themselves will hold on. why why are we not hearing from them? and you have to make that same love? >> that's a risk for the prosecution and defense attorney. >> my summation, we're all used to be just underscore just the differences between karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. and i think come into play here. karen mcdougal's relationship with trump is much

more of a relationship, right? stormy daniel's, there's a debate about whether turning to do is since she was in love with you? yeah. exactly. i think that that that also is going to come into play too, in terms of trump's credibility and denying these affairs. >> thanks, everyone. the news continues right here on cnn nothing dems my light, like a migraine with nortech ott. i found really the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent all-in-one to those with migraine. i see you for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults don't take if allergic to nortech odi team allergic reactions can occur even days after using most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. >> it's time. we talk to a health care provider about nortech ott from pfizer. >> it's good to get some fresh air that's there. >> hi guys. bill. you look great. now that i have inspire, i'm free from struggling with the mask and the hose is fire inspires of sleep apnea the treatment that works inside my body with a click of this button no mask?

>> no. you just sleep where are you go? >> i'm going to get inspire. >> inspire sleep apnea, innovation, learn more and be important safety information at inspires leap.com hey, they're brenda. it's exactly. >> so which like are we operating on? >> do you mean arm it's all connected, asking the right question can greatly impact your future. sure. you're an orthopedist. >> actually, i'm a sagittarius especially when it comes to your finances you have a question. >> are you a certified financial planner? >> yes. i'm a cfp professional. >> cop p professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's gotta be a cfb bind your cfp professional, and let's make a plan he introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. he thinks is blakey red patches are all people see. >> oh, tesla is the number one prescribed pill to treat blacks but tesla can help you get clear don't use a tesla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen.

oh, tesla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting some people taking the tesla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss upper respiratory tract infection, and headache may occur live in the moment. asked your doctor lotto tesla, you're calling. >> some people find there's at an early age. others later in life the matter when you find it, you consider yourself lucky because it becomes your everything are calling was to build trucks. and that's why trucks are what we do we put are everything in every truck so that when you find your calling nothing can stop you from answering it so it's the playoffs. >> what brings you to adhere to are you looking at do you really have to ask from i'm not tomorrow, missile says, look, i know it can be stressful this time a year great teammates build each other up. >> they trust at the other would be there for them when

they were going to do a trust walls and you close your eyes for trust what you sent me up doc i told you,